MyDD :: Clinton: No due process for immigrants b4 deportation.

Clinton: No due process for immigrants b4 deportation.

by illlaw1, Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 01:48:39 PM EST

I'm an immigration attorney. I am very concerned with the well being of my clients and their families. Though I thought all of the candidates were relatively moderate on their immigration stances I just ran into a less than well publicized Clinton position on immigrants.

According to the the NY Sun Senator Clinton has been making, as part of her campaign speeches, statements that aliens convicted of a crime should be deported without any legal process.

Her campaign staff has tried to limit her statements to a specific provision of the dead CIR bill of yesteryear but her blunt comments do not seem to be so limited to me.

Even if this is simply campaign rhetoric, it surprises and worries me that a Democrat would so easily dismiss due process, which is clearly a fundamental part of our nation (even if the GOP disagrees).

This position, if it becomes more widely known could also hurt her in the Latino community which has many families of mixed immigration status.

I hope for a clarification from the candidate herself soon.

Tags: Hillary Clinton, Immigration (all tags)

Permalink :: 70 Comments :: Post a Comment

Re: Clinton: No due process for immigrants. (none / 0)

She's proposing that they get due process like any other defendant, but if they're convicted, no additional process regarding the deportation question... right?

"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman

by Steve M on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 01:51:16 PM EST

Re: Clinton: No due process for immigrants. (2.00 / 1)

So you agree that no due process should be required for deporting someone?

by illlaw1 on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 01:58:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

what due process (none / 0)

is she saying they should be deprived of that you believe they should get?

ABO... Anybody but Obama. I LIKE the democratic party.

by MollieBradford on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 02:01:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: what due process (none / 0)

An immigration court proceeding, a BIA appeal, federal court... You know (or maybe you don't) the stuff they're entitled to know. Before they get stuck on a plane.

by illlaw1 on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 02:02:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

and where did she specifically say (none / 0)

that they were not entitled to those things?
'
More Obama race card nonsense. He's shameful.

ABO... Anybody but Obama. I LIKE the democratic party.

by MollieBradford on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 02:29:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: and where did she specifically say (2.00 / 2)

Obama made her say: "Anybody who committed a crime in this country or in the country they came from has to be deported immediately, with no legal process. They are immediately gone," or that aliens with criminal records "should be deported, no questions asked or that "No legal process," "You put them on a plane to wherever they came from."?

That's one magical black man. Perhaps I should support him over John Edwards.

by illlaw1 on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 02:32:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton: No due process for immigrants. (none / 0)

No, I'm not agreeing. I wanted to first clarify that that's what she's talking about, and then I was hoping to get a little more of your perspective about why it's a bad thing, since immigration is your area.

Maybe you could talk a little about some of the scenarios where it would be most important to have an additional proceeding regarding the deportation. I think most of us are seeing this issue from 30,000 feet.

"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman

by Steve M on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 02:04:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton: No due process for immigrants. (none / 0)

I'm not sure what you mean by additional proceeding. Criminal court and immigration proceedings are two different things that fall under completely different sets of laws (state or federal and purely federal).

Immigrants who have been convicted of crimes are not automatically removable (deportable). There are waivers or avenues to stay after a conviction based on hardship to family members, how minor the offense was, whether you'd be tortured if sent back, or persecuted.

State criminal or federal criminal courts do not have the jurisdiction or expertise to hear such things.

by illlaw1 on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 02:13:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton: No due process for immigrants. (none / 0)

Immigrants who have been convicted of crimes are not automatically removable (deportable). There are waivers or avenues to stay after a conviction based on hardship to family members, how minor the offense was, whether you'd be tortured if sent back, or persecuted.

What about Illegal immigrants? Are they entitled to the same rights as other immigrants?

ABO... Anybody but Obama. I LIKE the democratic party.

by MollieBradford on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 02:31:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton: No due process for immigrants. (none / 0)

I'm pretty sure that the ONLY universe we're talking about here are illegal immigrants. And yes, they are entitled to set procedures relative to deportation that are separate and apart from any criminal proceedings.

by HSTruman on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 02:50:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton: No due process for immigrants. (none / 0)

Illegal immigrants also have avenues to remain in the US even after they have committed a crime. Who is going to judge the cancellation of removal application if there is no legal process?

by illlaw1 on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 03:30:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton: No due process for immigrants. (none / 0)

http://facts.hillaryhub.com/archive/?id= 5548

by world dictator on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 02:15:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton: No due process for immigrants. (1.50 / 2)

That's in the article but that's not her statement in her speeches. Nice spin though.

by illlaw1 on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 02:16:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton: No due process for immigrants. (none / 0)

If that's what she's proposing, it would be a significant change to the system. Does that mean we would deport individuals with credible claims that they would be tortured if returned to their country of origin, for example?

This isn't my field, but I would be interested to know what she has in mind. I suspect it's not anything quite so draconian and that this is just a cheap appause line.

by HSTruman on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 02:20:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton: No due process for immigrants. (none / 0)

Her words seem very clear. No legal process. Put em on a plane.

Where between the conviction and the plane would they make the determination if a waiver was applicable or if our CAT duties were being upheld since there would be no legal process?

by illlaw1 on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 02:25:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton: No due process for immigrants. (2.00 / 0)

I think it's a bit much to take a line from a stump speech and conclude that the actual policy must contain no exceptions whatsoever. This is true for any politician.

"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman

by Steve M on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 02:38:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton: No due process for immigrants. (none / 0)

She didn't mean it you mean?

by illlaw1 on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 02:46:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton: No due process for immigrants. (none / 0)

I think what I said was very clear.

"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman

by Steve M on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 02:57:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton: No due process for immigrants. (none / 0)

Yes. It can't be that simple. She must mean something else. It's clear that you think so. However, it's a position that's unsupported by evidence at this point.

by illlaw1 on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 03:27:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton: No due process for immigrants. (none / 0)

Where's the debate?

by illlaw1 on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 03:26:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton: No due process for immigrants. (none / 0)

I agree, especially since Clinton has generally been supportive of a rational immigration policy. That being said, I'd love to hear her flesh this out a bit.

Much of my extended family, most of whom are die-hard democrats, are cross-presured on immigration issues. They want to be humane and inclusive, but they feel like the current system is costing them jobs. For that reason, some of them would definitely like her statement as its currently worded. I suspect that's the intent of the line.

by HSTruman on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 02:48:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton: No due process for immigrants. (none / 0)

They really think immigrants are taking their jobs? What industries are they in?

by illlaw1 on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 03:27:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton: No due process for immigrants. (none / 0)

Construction and the restaurant industry primarily. I've had this conversation with several of my relatives, and they will usually listen to sense if you frame things properly. But there is an intuitive appeal to "cracking down" on "illegals" within the blue-collar community, without question.

by HSTruman on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 03:46:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton: No due process for immigrants. (none / 0)

Construction arguably though I didn't know that many Americans want to be busboys. People who can't speak English very well don't seem to get the waiter/bartender jobs.

by illlaw1 on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 05:35:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton: No due process for immigrants. (none / 0)

Again, you're preaching to the converted my friend. Nonetheless, it's worth remembering that there are plenty of democrats who have mixed feelings about immigration issues. That makes the way we frame things important.

by HSTruman on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 05:43:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton: No due process for immigrants. (none / 0)

I certainly agree. Numbers are always helpful. I ask my paralegal students what they believe about immigration (lower wages? take jobs?) on the first day of class and then give them studies showing what's actually happening.

by illlaw1 on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 06:50:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton: No due process for immigrants. (none / 0)

No she's saying that they don't get due process in defense of their crime. If you're accused of a crime, you can be deported.

by mcdave on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 03:23:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton: No due process for immigrants. (none / 0)

She's saying they don't get the usual immigration court proceeding, a BIA appeal, a federal court appeal...

by illlaw1 on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 03:25:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton: No due process for immigrants. (none / 0)

Do you seriously believe this is what she's saying?

"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman

by Steve M on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 03:41:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton: No due process for immigrants. (2.00 / 2)

Oh come on -

Thats the worst headline for a diary ever -- very misleading

vote blue in 2008

by sepulvedaj3 on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 01:54:27 PM EST

Re: Clinton: No due process for immigrants. (none / 0)

How so?

by illlaw1 on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 01:58:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It was meant to be (none / 0)

Thats the worst headline for a diary ever -- very misleading

This is obviously a small shot aimed at peeling off hispanic voters. I'm sure it's come from some Obama talking point. It is interesting to note the similarity of a lot of this anti Clinton stuff. I suppose they pick it up and spread it.

by ottovbvs on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 02:03:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It was meant to be (none / 0)

You mean the quotes were faked?

by illlaw1 on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 02:16:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No. (2.00 / 0)

They don't like it, therefore it's "misleading." Tell them something they want to hear and they'll call it "accurate and compelling."

by Mystylplx on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 02:56:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton: No due process for immigrants. (2.00 / 2)

This is a misleading diary. That's hardly what she said and if you were really an attorney, you would understand that.

by americanincanada on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 01:58:23 PM EST

Re: Clinton: No due process for immigrants. (none / 0)

I am but perhaps you can explain what she said.

by illlaw1 on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 02:01:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton: No due process for immigrants. (2.00 / 3)

You're anti Clinton/hispanic agenda is as transparent as glass.

by ottovbvs on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 02:04:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton: No due process for immigrants. (none / 0)

Hispanic agenda? What is this place? Redstate or LGF?

by illlaw1 on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 02:14:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton: No due process for immigrants. (none / 0)

I'm troll rating this because it's a racist comment. Insert "homosexual agenda" and you'll see what I mean.

by mcdave on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 03:27:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton: No due process for immigrants. (none / 0)

I'm uprating it because apparently you can't read.

"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman

by Steve M on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 03:42:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton: No due process for immigrants. (none / 0)

Do you mean you think that person mean anti-hispanic agenda and anti-Clinton agenda? I ask because anti-hispanic wouldn't make any sense.

by illlaw1 on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 05:31:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton: No due process for immigrants. (none / 0)

What he means is that you're trying to drive a wedge between Clinton and the Hispanic vote.

"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman

by Steve M on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 05:59:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton: No due process for immigrants. (none / 0)

How?

by illlaw1 on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 06:50:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton: No due process for immigrants. (none / 0)

I'm sure you can figure out what he means.

"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman

by Steve M on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 07:23:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

lol (2.00 / 2)

Atty Sock Puppet at Law

ABO... Anybody but Obama. I LIKE the democratic party.

by MollieBradford on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 02:03:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: lol (2.00 / 1)

Hilarious!

by illlaw1 on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 02:04:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's not the words but the attitude... (none / 0)

...it's an applause line. And while I believe if you look at HRC's actual context and record that it's just rhetoric, it's not a pander I want to hear and it's not something a Dem should be doing.

We need to change the conversation not enable it.

by MNPundit on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 02:01:14 PM EST

Re: It's not the words but the attitude... (1.50 / 2)

I'm not aware that she has a very progressive record on immigration so this sort of thing worries me. If it's just for applause that's terrible as well.

by illlaw1 on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 02:04:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's not the words but the attitude... (2.00 / 2)

I'm sure you are very concerned for her.

by ottovbvs on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 02:05:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's not the words but the attitude... (none / 0)

I'm concerned for the families I represent.

by illlaw1 on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 02:14:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's not the words but the attitude... (2.00 / 1)

I'm sure you are. Being a lawyer you will know that as a practical matter this comment of hers has no materiality. I think your motives are fairly clear. If this is the best the Obama camp can come up with to derail the Clinton hispanic relationship, I don't think it has a great future.

by ottovbvs on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 02:27:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's not the words but the attitude... (none / 0)

No. Please explain why the comment has "no materiality".

I'm a John Edwards supporter. Nice try though.

by illlaw1 on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 02:30:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Edit your title, change it. (2.00 / 1)

You seem to have put up a misleading title (intentionally?).

by dpANDREWS on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 02:10:01 PM EST

Re: Edit your title, change it. (none / 0)

How is it misleading?

by illlaw1 on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 02:15:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edit your title, change it. (2.00 / 0)

To what? My understanding is that the line in her stump speech is "without legal process." Does that sound better?

For the sake of context, there are hard-right immigration foes out there who want to rewrite our immigration laws so as to eliminate the appeals process necessary to deport someone. I doubt Hillary supports such a step, but if this line is causing controversy its because the language she's using makes it sound as if she does.

by HSTruman on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 02:18:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton: (2.00 / 1)

Well, I saw the item a few hours ago, it didn't take long for it to reach here, I'm seeing. And from someone "concerned"...

by reasonwarrior on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 02:41:09 PM EST

Re: Clinton: No due process for immigrants b4 depo (2.00 / 0)

I strongly believe that we need to enforce our immigration laws, but this is just awful. No due process? That could very well mean a death sentence for some people. Certainly she doesn't mean that, not even Tom Tancredo would probably advocate sending people to certain death. Clarification is needed, for sure.

by dmc2 on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 03:02:14 PM EST

Re: Clinton: No due process for immigrants b4 depo (2.00 / 1)

oh the dramatics on here today are at an all time high

vote blue in 2008

by sepulvedaj3 on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 03:08:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton: No due process for immigrants b4 depo (none / 0)

Go read the article. Honestly, either this will get swept under the rug, or she will have to clarify. There is no way those statements can stand, assuming she wasn't somehow misquoted.

by dmc2 on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 04:23:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton: No due process for immigrants b4 depo (none / 0)

Deportation proceedings are distinct from the process related to a criminal conviction. Due process, of a different sort, has traditionally applied to deportation proceedings as well.

by HSTruman on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 03:18:37 PM EST

Re: Clinton: No due process for immigrants b4 depo (none / 0)

Immigration proceedings (and appeals thereafter) are separate and distinct from a criminal proceeding.

by illlaw1 on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 03:28:43 PM EST

Re: Clinton: No due process for immigrants (none / 0)

Yes, the should be deported, but after they've received due process. Sometimes a legitimate case can be made that to send someone back to their home country is essentially a death sentence, and in that case, we don't do it.

by dmc2 on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 04:24:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton: No due process for immigrants (none / 0)

No, if someone breaks the law, and they're subject to deportation, then they should be deported, provided that they have a chance to plead their case in a proper deportation hearing. But there will be exceptions. There always are. That's why we have due process. Believe me, if Hillary is pressed on this, she will not maintain that they are not entitled to due process. I guarantee it.

by dmc2 on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 05:39:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton: No due process for immigrants (none / 0)

So if someone commits simple assault b/c they got into a drunken fight one evening, they should be deported even if it means that they will be tortured if returned to their country of origin? Because cases like that exist.

by HSTruman on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 05:45:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton: No due process for immigrants (none / 0)

If they've served their time why would you keep them in jail at all?

With no legal process how would one present their CAT or Asylum claim.

Additionally, there are other ways for people who have been convicted of a crime to stay depending on the crime and their ties to the US.

Without a legal process when would that case be presented?

Or would we do away with that?

by illlaw1 on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 06:52:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton: No due process for immigrants (none / 0)

So you're saying that we should do away with cancellation of removal, CAT protection, asylum and the like? You might not mean that (in fact you probably don't know what I'm referring to) but it's exactly what you're saying. Clinton doesn't have the excuse of not understanding the immigration system.

by illlaw1 on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 05:33:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton: No due process for immigrants (none / 0)

I'll take that as a yes. Draconian and very GOP-like.

by illlaw1 on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 06:53:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton: No due process (none / 0)

I think its pretty obvious what she is saying and its her typical pander to centrism in light of the general election.

I haven't read a single response that disputes what she is saying. Im an attorney too, and its pretty clear she wants to remove the proceedings that immigrants are afforded before their deportation because they have criminal background. That plays extremely well to blue collar anti-immigrantion folks.

by satyreddy on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 05:51:50 PM EST

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